Dolby Podcast Episode 26, October 25, 2007
Craig and Jack tell listeners about Dolby Volume, a new technology for AV receivers and TVs (expected to be available in 2008). They compare Dolby Volume, which levels out the inconsistent volume levels between programming sources, channels, and content, to compander technology, and explain its volume modeling capabilities. Plus, listener Paul wonders about how to get his DVD player to default to Dolby Digital 5.1 rather than Dolby Digital 2.0 stereo.
Don't miss our follow-up episode on Dolby Volume with Dolby's Alan Seefeldt.
Hear them all: Listen to Dolbycast on iTunes® or subscribe using your favorite RSS reader.
Mentioned in this Episode
Jack Buser: Hello! And welcome to Dolbycast, the insider's guide to entertainment technology from the experts at Dolby Laboratories. I'm Jack Buser.
Craig Eggers: And I'm Craig Eggers.
Jack: And we're here to give you the straight talk on everything you need to please your ears.
Announcer: Loyal listeners, make your voice heard. We want to hear what you love and what you want changed about Dolbycast. Take our Dolbycast survey at dolby.com/Dolbycast [the survey closed on January 15, 2008 Thank you for your contributions! –ed.].
Craig: And yes, we are here, Mr. Jack Buser.
Jack: Yes, we are. Yet again. [laughs]
Craig: [laughs] Our listeners aren't privy to this, but we have a monitor in our studio here.
Jack: Yes, we do.
Craig: And looking through that monitor, I see the man who does all those wonderful sound mixes and makes us sound so incredibly good...
Jack: [laughing] So good...
Craig: As he reminds us, right?
Jack: Yes.
Craig: His name's John, and he's sitting here with his head down and, literally, his face buried between...
Jack: [laughs]
Craig: It's like, “What have I got myself into this time?”
Jack: Yeah. He's sort of the Paul Shaffer of Dolbycast, if you will.
[laughter]
Craig: So, anyway. So, if we sound good, it's because John did a great job, and if we sound bad, well, it's because we just weren't good, right?
Jack: Not to bring up everybody's favorite topic, which was the “ Abbey Road =“ podcast, but...
Craig: Oh, not again!
Jack: [laughs]
Craig: Don't go there! We're going to lose...
Jack: No, did you hear John's faux-Beatles interlude?
Craig: Yes.
Jack: [laughs]
Craig: I've got to tell you, Jack...
Jack: That was good stuff. That was good stuff.
Craig: If you bring up the “ Abbey Road ” podcast another time, we're going to lose all 10 of our listeners.
Jack: [laughs]
Craig: That would be it.
Jack: Speaking of all 10 of our listeners, our listener questions box has been overflowing.
Craig: And we did a pretty good job, I hope, in answering some of those.
Jack: They keep coming in. They keep coming in. So, if we've only got 10 listeners, you guys type pretty fast.
[laughter]
Craig: So, listeners, send those questions to...
Jack: Absolutely. We haven't reminded our listeners about that.
Craig: What is that address, Jack?
Jack: It is dolbycast@dolby.com.
Craig: One more time.
Craig: [together] dolbycast@dolby.com.
Jack: We should never do that again.
Craig: We shouldn't.
[laughter]
Craig: I have a question here.
Jack: Oh, you're reading it today.
Craig: I get to read the question. OK?
Jack: OK, good. OK, read the question.
Craig: So this is from a guy by the name of Paul. Hi, Paul.
Jack: Hi, Paul.
Craig: And Paul writes: “The one thing that is starting to get me irritated...”
Jack: [laughs]
Craig: “Is seeing the words 'Dolby Digital 5.1' on the cover of the software. But when the DVD plays, it defaults to Dolby Digital 2.0 stereo.”
Jack: Oh, I remember this one.
Craig: “Then I have to stop the DVD and go into the language audio setup and set it to Dolby Digital 5.1.” Paul says, “This is a pain.”
Jack: Yeah, that sounds like a pain.
Craig: “I would like to have...” I don't know what he said here. [laughs]
Jack: Well, listen. I get the gist. I get the gist.
Craig: But anyway, he wants 5.1 all the time, Jack.
Jack: No, that's weird because most modern DVD players—and by modern, I mean probably like second-generation and beyond—unless it's some weird configuration, will have a setup menu, where you go into your standard DVD player and you say either “I want Dolby Digital 2-channel, “ sometimes it'll even have PCM 2-channel, or Dolby Digital 5.1.
Craig: PCM, yeah.
Jack: And you set it once, and that's just that. In fact, a lot of DVD players even default to Dolby Digital 5.1.
Craig: Mm-hmm.
Jack: It's kind of weird. I wonder if he's passing the bitstream out of the optical or coaxial output, or whether he's got a DVD player with multi-channel decoding. If he's passing the bitstream out, then...
Craig: No, no.
Jack: I mean, it depends on the DVD player...
Craig: I think Paul should probably go back into his setup menu and check and make sure his player is set for 5.1 out.
Jack: Check. And if it's set, it's set, right?
Craig: And there may be some software out there that does indeed default to 2.0.
Jack: Some of the early, early DVDs, they would default to stereo Dolby Digital. They would have a stereo Dolby Surround mix, and then you'd have to go in and set it to 5.1 specifically.
Craig: Well, here's another thing...
Jack: But those were only a few early DVDs.
Craig: But sometimes the features in advance of the movie are actually stereo.
Jack: That is true, too.
Craig: So, his light could be lighting up while he's watching, maybe, features or advertising or whatever might be prior the actually movie startup...
Jack: Yeah. Yeah.
Craig: That would be encoded in stereo, and his AV receiver would be telling him he's getting Dolby Digital stereo.
Jack: Yeah. But this question, it's just weird to me because I've owned countless DVD players at this point, and I've never run across that problem. Generally, what happens is you buy the player. At worst, you have to go in and configure it one time through the setup menu, and then you're just done, and that's just that. It should just stick on Dolby Digital 5.1.
Craig: Well, we're not implying that Paul is weird.
Jack: No.
Craig: This is just strange for us.
Jack: I'm implying maybe that player is a little weird. I don't know.
Craig: The chumps have been stumped?
[laughter]
Jack: I'm stumped. I'm stumped. I don't know why it would be doing that.
Craig: Yeah, yeah.
Jack: It seems a little weird to me. But as I recall, that particular listener question had something pretty cool at the bottom. Is that the one that says, “DVD spelled backwards is DVD”?
Craig: No.
Jack: Oh, OK. That's something else.
Craig: No, Jack.
Jack: There was a listener question that had that.
Craig: You said you were going to work that in. You just found a way to work it in.
Jack: I wanted to work that in. I thought that was quite an insight.
Craig: Jack. Cranberry sauce, Jack. Cranberry sauce.
Jack: [laughs] That was great. “DVD spelled backwards is DVD”. I love that.
Craig: Wow!
Jack: [laughs]
Craig: I tell you what. I'm not even going to go where I was going to go, because I respect you as a person.
Jack: [laughs] Thank you.
Craig: And I respect where you come from.
Jack: Thank you very... Wait a minute.
Craig: [laughs]
Jack: Wait a minute. That was not a veiled reference to my home state, was it? Because if it was, we're going to have trouble.
Craig: What home state are you talking about?
Jack: We're going to change the topic right now.
[laughter]
Craig: Let's go to a break.
Jack: We're going to change the topic. We're going to go to a break. When we come back, today's podcast is going to be surrounding Dolby Volume. We'll be right back.
[musical interlude]
Announcer: You're listening to Dolbycast, with Craig Eggers and Jack Buser. Email them at dolbycast@dolby.com. That's dolbycast@dolby.com.
Craig: And we are back at Dolbycast. I'm Craig Eggers, with my special guest, Mr. Jack Buser.
Jack: How are you doing, Craig?
Craig: It's a pleasure to be here with you again, in the spirit.
Jack: It really is, especially this episode, because we're going to cover my favorite new technology.
Craig: A new technology that we introduced specifically for AV receivers, home theater boxes, and that type of product, at the CES show.
Jack: That's correct. A technology called Dolby Volume.
Craig: So, what does Dolby Volume do?
Jack: Well, we've talked a little bit about Dolby Volume before on past podcasts, but I think it's worth doing a little refresher here to cover what I feel is probably one of the most pervasive problems out there.
Craig: Yeah. Dolby Volume addresses something that's really been an issue for years and years, and that is, as you switch sources or programming on your color television set, or sources on your AV receiver, even when you're listening to us, and you might have a file after us on your iPod or your MP3 player, there's huge variances in volume levels that, as you go from program to program or source to source that causes you to start reaching for the remote control.
Jack: Yeah.
Craig: So, literally, it's up and down and up and down with the remote control, as you adjust for the various inconsistent volume levels between your programming sources, between your channels, and between your content.
Jack: Happens to me all the time. First of all, let me razz you for saying “color television set,” because that's hilarious.
[laughter]
Craig: Should I call it a display device?
Jack: And then, secondly, let me talk about what I think...
Craig: Do you know what monochrome is? Have you ever heard of monochrome TV?
Jack: Of course I've heard of a monochrome TV.
Craig: Jack's a veteran from the old days. [makes beeping sounds]
Jack: I had an Atari 2600 that had a switch that would actually turn the thing from color to black and white. You remember that thing?
Craig: [laughs]
Jack: Anyway. But we digress. Back to Dolby Volume.
Craig: We digress.
Jack: I've got to tell you, one of the biggest issues that I have, outside of just watching TV when a local commercial pops up, and all of a sudden, wha! It blows you out of your seat because it's so much louder.
Craig: Mm-hmm.
Jack: The other thing that bugs me is when you go from a DVD to music.
Craig: Oh yeah.
Jack: Oh, man! That just kills me!
Craig: Or if you've got a 5-CD changer, and you go from disc to disc to disc.
Jack: Yes. Absolutely.
Craig: The variances in volume levels can be incredible.
Jack: Or if you just have an iPod with a bunch of stuff ripped from a bunch of different CDs on there, different CDs, there is no standard for at what level to record music...
Craig: Exactly.
Jack: So, the stuff is just all over the place. So, if you have a party, you have some friends over, and you set your jukebox up to just play some random tracks, it's bouncing all over the place. Half the songs you can't hear, and the other half blow people out of the room.
Craig: Now, I should say that this is a problem that, quite frankly, many have tried to resolve in the past.
Jack: Absolutely.
Craig: And quite frankly, the resolution hasn't been that great.
Jack: Well, it hasn't. And in fact, what happens most of the time, when you find technologies that have tried to solve these differences in levels; they actually introduce more audio artifacts than they've taken care of.
Craig: Exactly. A lot of the older technologies utilize what we call compander technology. Compander, literally, is compression and expander, hence the word “compander.”
Jack: Yeah. It makes everything sound like FM radio.
[laughter]
Craig: What's wrong with FM radio?
Jack: Well, FM radio's fine...
Craig: [laughs]
Jack: But I wouldn't hold it up as a paragon of audio quality. Just to solve the leveling problem, I don't want everything to sound like it's playing over FM radio. That's my point.
Craig: OK, OK, OK.
Jack: [laughs]
Craig: Well, I was comparing FM to, maybe, some low bit rate applications that I know that you listen to frequently. [laughs]
Jack: Well... [laughs]
Craig: Huh?
Jack: I don't listen to low bit rate.
Craig: You don't?
Jack: Not frequently.
Craig: OK.
Jack: OK.
Craig: Infrequently.
Jack: [laughs] Infrequently.
Craig: So, anyway, compander. So, what happens with compander is those signals that are louder than, basically, the level that you set are compressed. They're pushed down, if you will.
Jack: Yeah.
Craig: And then the expander side of a compander noise reduction is, once a signal starts decaying, often times the compander itself will try to push that gain level back up.
Jack: Yeah.
Craig: Sort of like the end of the Beatles tune, A Day in the Life, where you had that staccato piano chord, and it's supposed to decay over time gently. On a compander volume level situation, you would literally be boosting that note as it decays.
Jack: Yeah.
Craig: And that's not natural.
Jack: Well, in fact, the best way I have to describe those older technologies is that it constantly sounds like it's pumping and breathing...
Craig: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And you can hear those artifacts.
Jack: Oh, man. Well, you can hear it plain as day. Again, I use the example of FM radio. Play your favorite CD, and then listen to that same tune over FM radio. Generally, they've run it through a compander system. You know what I mean?
Craig: OK. I'll give you that. I'll give you that. Yeah.
Jack: Exactly. That's why I use the example of FM radio. They're always using the single-band compressor in order to kind of level out their particular radio station, and it just doesn't sound as good as the original CD. Dolby Volume actually routes around a lot of these problems.
Craig: Yes it does, Jack. And Dolby Volume is an extremely intelligent process.
Jack: Yeah.
Craig: It utilizes what we call spectral-based analysis, where we're analyzing the frequency and individual elements within the sound signature.
Jack: Yeah.
Craig: And we're also doing loudness analysis: what's loud, what's increasing, what's decreasing.
Jack: That's what it's really all about. So it's solving the problem without introducing any unwanted artifacts.
Craig: Exactly. And that's really important.
Jack: Absolutely. And I think it's important to also note that the way Dolby Volume does this, in the simplest terms, the way I always explain it is that Dolby Volume is really based on the way that people hear sound.
Craig: Exactly.
Jack: It's a field of science called psychoacoustics. And in fact, a lot of Dolby technology is based on the science of psychoacoustics.
Craig: Yes, yes.
Jack: And essentially, what it does is it levels the sound in a way that doesn't create artifacts, because it's very, very intelligent about how you hear sound. So, again, it's based on the science of psychoacoustics, so you don't notice any artifacts or anything like that. It just sounds like it's supposed to sound, except everything's leveled. It's actually a very sophisticated technology.
Craig: It is very sophisticated. And I'm reminded, because Scott's at the control board again, and you remember my comment about the word “precisely”? I was using the word “precisely” over and over again.
Jack: Yes. Yes.
Craig: Well, apparently I've found another word, listeners, and it's “exactly.”
Jack: [laughs]
Craig: And I've just been reminded that that's the fifth “exactly” that I have used in this podcast, so my apologies go out.
Jack: Craig, you find these words, and I like them. I think we're going to have to create a list or something, of Craig-isms.
Craig: Precisely. Exactly.
Jack: It's the precision. It's the idea of precision that you really like.
Craig: On the other hand, Jack, you're up to three “quite franklies.”
[laughter]
Craig: So, quite frankly, folks, we're going to take a break and come back.
Jack: Precisely.
[laughter]
[musical interlude]
Announcer: Got opinions for Jack and Craig? Take our Dolbycast survey at dolby.com/Dolbycast [The survey was closed on January 15, 2008. Thank you for your contributions. –ed.].
Jack: And we're back at Dolbycast. Quite frankly, this is exactly, precisely what I wanted to cover on this podcast.
[laughter]
Jack: And Scott has reminded us that it was actually not me saying “quite frankly.” [laughs] It was you doing both the “precisely's” the “exactly's,” or all three...
Craig: It was me? Oh, man... You're not going to retire me, are you?
Jack: [laughs]
Craig: You're not going to retire me, are you?
Jack: I just love that I'm innocent. I love that I'm innocent.
Craig: This time you're innocent, my friend.
Jack: [laughs]
Craig: Dolby Volume is a wonderful solution for next-generation AV receivers.
Jack: Yeah.
Craig: I mean, look at an AV receiver. Today, its functionality is to process video and audio signals from HD DVD, Blu-ray, DVD, CD...
Jack: iPod, game consoles...
Craig: iPod. Exactly.
Jack: You name it.
Craig: And as you switch between all these different sources, including TV audio, right?
Jack: Yeah.
Craig: I didn't say “color television audio.” I said “TV audio.”
Jack: [laughs]
Craig: As you switch between all these sources, you are going to have different variances in gain levels. And Dolby Volume is a wonderful solution for AV receiver, home theater box, even the stereo 2.1 systems.
Jack: Absolutely. And the time is so ripe for this technology because, if you think back 20 years ago, generally you had your VCR hooked up to your TV, and at best, you had a VCR and maybe cable TV or something like that. And today, you just have a proliferation of sources.
Craig: A plethora.
Jack: A plethora, if I may.
[laughter]
Jack: I mean, if you go into my home theater, I easily have 10 devices there...
Craig: I've been to your home theater.
Jack: Xbox, PS3, HD DVD, Blu-ray...
Craig: Yes.
Jack: You name it. The list is as long as my arm. And so, I think a lot of people now have at least three devices that they're switching between, and it can be a real problem.
Craig: So, you've got a baby at home now.
Jack: I do. She's actually not a baby anymore. She's two and a half.
Craig: Oh my God.
Jack: Two and a half.
Craig: Is that right?
Jack: It's amazing how fast she grew.
Craig: Now, is she pointing at the components and starting to pull on them yet?
Jack: In fact, she knows how to work the DVD player.
Craig: Is that right?
Jack: She knows how to eject, put the disk in, press “play”. It will automatically close the tray, and she's watching Dora the Explorer.
Craig: Is that right?
Jack: I kid you not.
Craig: That's cool. That's very cool.
Jack: You know, I just...
Craig: But there are times when you and the wife are upstairs asleep. And you come home late at night at work, and you want to watch your system, right?
Jack: Yeah. That's right. And I want to watch it a reasonable volume without, basically, having the sound go into the other room. And a lot of times, I'd set it at a particular level, and then another piece of program material would come on and blam! It would just blow away the other room and wake up the kid. And then that was no fun.
Craig: So, that's one of the solutions Dolby Volume brings to the home theater environment.
Jack: Absolutely.
Craig: But typically, when you start turning down your system...
Jack: Now this is cool.
Craig:...what happens?
Jack: Well, this is the other benefit of Dolby Volume. So, we've talked a lot about volume leveling, but there's another feature of Dolby Volume, as it's implemented in AV receivers...
Craig: As well as TVs, too.
Jack: As well as TVs...
Craig: But in AV receivers in surround systems, in particular, it really has even more impact.
Jack: It's called the Modeler, the Volume Modeler. Right? That's what we're calling it, Volume Modeler.
Craig: Internally that's what we were calling it. It's basically Dolby Volume now.
Jack: Dolby Volume. So, essentially, what we're referring to internally as Volume Modeling, which means that you can get a reference listening experience at any listening level. So now, what does that mean? When you mix a movie or even a video game today, a lot of the artists are mixing at what's called a reference level.
Craig: And that's 85 dB [decibels] in a lot of studios.
Jack: 85 dB in a lot of studios, which is very, very loud.
Craig: That's loud.
Jack: That is extremely loud.
Craig: And that, Jack, is why when you go to the theater sometimes...
Jack: Yeah. It's very loud.
Craig: It's very loud because they're...
Jack: They're trying to play it...
Craig:...playing it back at the reference volume.
Jack: Correct. Now, why do they mix at these very loud reference volumes? Well, it turns out you're hearing is only flat at this...
Craig: As close to flat as we can get it, yeah.
Jack: As close to flat at this reference level, meaning that the loudness of the bass, the loudness of the midrange, the loudness of the treble is all equivalent.
Craig: Exactly.
Jack: But, as you turn down the volume, as program material gets quieter and quieter and quieter, you actually become more sensitive to midrange, and less sensitive to bass and treble.
Craig: So, think of a bell curve, if you will...
Jack: That's right.
Craig:...where we lose our bass, our ability to hear base. We have a really cognitive midrange element...
Jack: Yep.
Craig:...because as humans that's what we were designed to hear, is other...
Jack: Yeah. Exactly. I mean, when—exactly right. When people say “help!”...
Craig: Yeah.
Jack:...you want to be able to hear their voice.
Craig: Exactly.
Jack: Well, that's midrange, right? Now, here's...
Craig: And on the high end it rolls off and again...
Jack: Exactly.
Craig:...you have that bell curve effect as you start to lower the volume.
Jack: So, as you lower the volume...
Craig: That's how our ears hear.
Jack: That's right. As you lower the volume of a particular piece of program material, your ears become less sensitive to bass and treble. And it's increasingly so as you lower the volume. So, at first, it's just a little bit less sensitive. And then more and more and more and more and more, until you get to very low volumes, where really, all you can hear is midrange. Now Dolby Volume, with this modeler functionality, actually can correct for that dynamically.
Craig: Exactly.
Jack: Which is the coolest thing, because you can actually listen to stuff quiet, but get a flat frequency response, because it corrects for the imperfections in your hearing.
Craig: What I really like about it is whereas in the past, when I have turned the volume down on my surround sound system, I've lost the surround information.
Jack: Absolutely.
Craig: I've lost the timbre. I've lost the dynamics. I've lost the frequency response of my surrounds. But now, with Dolby Volume implemented...
Jack: Absolutely.
Craig:...I can get that reference level...
Jack: Listening experience, yeah.
Craig:...listening experience, even at a lower volume level.
Jack: And that is an added benefit up and above and beyond the leveling.
Craig: Mm-hmm.
Jack: So really Dolby Volume does it all. Does both of these things, and it's just such a wonderful technology. The cool thing about, actually the final thing I want to say about the modeler, is that it not only is based on where you have the volume control, but it also will respond to the source material itself.
So, it's working with both the material as well as where you have the volume control to actually create a true reference listening experience. I cannot wait for the new products to come out with Dolby Volume. That is going to be truly a reason for me to upgrade my AV receiver.
Craig: Yeah.
Jack: I can't wait for this technology.
Craig: I discovered it took us 5 years to develop this technology.
Jack: Yes.
Craig: In fact, the last 2 years, we actually had the technology in our engineers' homes doing beta testing of it.
Jack: Yeah.
Craig: Through the beta testing, we actually discovered some anomalies, some areas that we needed to work on, to refine before we brought the product to market.
Jack: It has been refined for years. In fact, I was one of those beta testers. I've been playing around with this—and you needed a pretty...
Craig: You didn't tell me that.
Jack: Yeah. I was. I absolutely was. I brought home a professional audio interface and a computer and set it all up. Man, it makes a difference. But it was kind of a pain to have their reference system, because I had to boot up the computer and have this huge audio interface and all these crazy wires.
Craig: Sure.
Jack: Now, with it just built into an AV receiver, it's going to be a dream come true. I can't wait.
Craig: Well, we introduced Dolby Volume. We talked to the press and we talked to our licensees, our licensees being the Yamahas, the Onkyos, the Sonys, the Samsungs. I'm sure I've missed some people, so apologies. But we talked to them at CEDIA and we are looking forward to the first products debuting with Dolby Volume sometime in 2008.
Jack: Have there been any announcements that we can talk about?
Craig: No official announcements we can talk about.
Jack: No official announcements. I am...
Craig: But I'll tell you what, we'll make this promise. As soon as there is an official announcement, our listeners will be the first.
Jack: Absolutely. Absolutely. I've got to tell you; especially having Dolby Volume in an AV receiver is going to be just the solution to all my woes. I can't wait for that, if for nothing else, to just finally be able to play my iPod at a party, and not have to run over to the receiver every five...
Craig: Yes. Yeah. Yes.
Jack: I mean, literally, to finally be able to set down the remote control is going to be the greatest feeling. [laughter] I can't wait.
Craig: And to enjoy all those commercials. You know, my father hits the mute button on every commercial. So therefore, with Dolby Volume...
Jack: Yep.
Craig: He's going to listen to the commercial. He's going to get the message. He's going to rush out and buy that new couch.
Jack: There you go. There you go.
Craig: That's a good thing.
Jack: Well, listen, I guess that brings us to the end of the Dolby...
Craig: Tha-tha-tha-tha.
Jack:...of Dolbycast.
Craig: What is this?
Jack: This is Dolbycast. If you have any questions or you want to hear more about Dolby Volume or you have any specific questions...
Craig: Send those questions to...
Jack: Dolbycast@dolby.com.
Craig: Do you want to do that again?
Jack and
Craig: Dolbycast@dolby.com.
Jack: Wait. We weren't going to do that again.
Craig: We said we weren't going to do that.
[laughter]
Craig: We lied.
Jack: As always, I'm Jack Buser.
Craig: I'm Craig Eggers.
Jack: And together we form a giant robot named Dolbycast. We'll see you next time.
[music]
Back to Top
Back to Dolbycast main page
